As history has showed us time and time again, even until the present, racism, discrimination, and ignorance lead people to do horrible things all the time and mistakenly judge others by the acts of few, if there is anything I wish for, it would be for more awareness and open-mindedness when it comes to accepting and respecting anything and anyone that is different.
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I can honestly say I was skeptical about posting about this book, I was worried about what would be said about Palestine (being Palestinian-American), and not having heard anything about this book before, I guess I didn’t give it the benefit of the doubt before delving in and reading it. Well, it is true, and as we see time and time again, to never judge a book by its cover, yet we usually do, which is what I mistakenly had done.
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“Hope, fear, redemption, remembering not to forget…yearning for an impossible future…all the ingredients for a perfect Jewish homeland (p.71)”
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I wasn’t sure how to feel about this, was Pekar being sarcastic? Was he being condescending? What are your thoughts?
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So far, the reading of this book has had me at a standstill, I wasn’t sure what to expect, but what I wasn’t expecting was a “self-hating Jew.” It was very interesting to see his thought process, and from what I know about the history of Palestine and Israel and how it all came into play, I was at first worried if he in fact was a reliable source.
So what do you all think? What do you think about Harvey Pekar so far? Do you think he is reliable? What do you think was Pekar’s point in writing this book? What are you ideas? How do you feel about the colors and graphics? Do you think the images and frames match his narrative? So far, I am interested in seeing what else he has to say, and how he became to be the man he was, what had changed his ideas and thoughts about Israel and Jews, and how it affected the outcome of his life.
I was trying to space between points I wrote about and it wouldn't work, sorry for the inconvenience everyone!
ReplyDeletePekar's quote about the perfect Jewish Homeland to me seemed equal parts cynicism and a sincere feeling of loss of hope. One of the most intriguing ideals of this book is a loss of faith on behalf of the main character. His parents being staunch Zionists gave young Pekar the same belief about the Jewish Homeland. Pekar doesn't classify himself as a "self hating Jew" but as someone who has reached a conclusion about the history of the "Chosen" people. Presented so far in the story, this is one of the reasons that Pekar lost his faith in religion. His mother also plays a part in this transformation. Her disbelief allied with her Communist affiliation gave Pekar an insight on where religion lacks. If the story is to be believed then the background that Pekar speaks of comes from historical documents. Therefore, his account plus the information presented would be fairly reliable. The color and art style lend surprisingly well to the feel of Pekar's character. The sepia type coloring matches the skepticism that Pekar demonstrates throughout the narrative. The captions underneath some of the panels makes the flow of the comic a little more choppy than I would like. However, the speech bubbles and font make perfect sense in the telling of the story. I do agree, I am excited to see more about what made Pekar the way he is. Looking further into his family ties and to see where the major break from Israel comes from, or if there even is a major catalyst. It could very well be that it is a small series of information and events that shape his behavior overtime. I am thoroughly excited to continue on.
ReplyDeleteVery interesting points you made! I'm excited as well to continue on! Thanks for your input!
DeleteOkay! I don’t know about the degree to which I can actually discuss some of the larger socio-political conflicts going on in this narrative just because I’m largely ignorant on the subject up until fairly recently. However, reading this text I feel somewhat disappointed that I’m reading this particular text by this author, rather than say, Harvey Pekar’s autobiography or something because this text feels like some kind of antidotal explanation to something that I don’t know or understand. It feels very very apologetic in a sense— and it calls back themes that we saw in Maus about the second generation of jewish parents are left with the responsibility or guilt of their ethnic history, and usually this space is a really hard one to occupy comfortably. So much self hate here! And perhaps it stems deeper and is channel through his discussion of his zionist parents and the jewish race. Not only that, but the weight is obviously very heavy to an extent because the entire framing of this story is him writing a book on the struggle for the illusive Israeli nation.
ReplyDeleteI guess that latter sentence is my hesitancy with this book. It’s a comic, but all of the visuals paired with the historical narration are very arbitrary and generalized. I don’t see much going on with the images, so I wonder what the point actually is. And since the text is largely a single strand of narration from a single speaker, it feels better suited to be an essay or something. Characters, speech and thought bubbles-- all of this isn't largely relevant to the narrative at present-- right?
Maybe there’s more that will come with the second half, or maybe some of you can point out major factors that I’m missing, but that’s the impression I got.
Yeah, I understand what you mean, without much background on the topic, I would see it would be difficult to formulate your opinion on the matter, so to speak. Although, I do agree with you in the sense it shares a similar theme to Maus, and how the second generations are felt with somewhat of a "survivor's guilt" or not having endured or been there at the time, they feel they can't relate on the same basis.
DeleteYeah, I see your point about the visuals as well, it does seem to be very arbitrary and generalized, that was my initial impression of the book as well, it's a comic, but not much is focused on the graphics, as in the books we have seen before.
I think Pekar feels detached from his earlier self, after he considered his own discoveries, through reading and being away from his parents. His negative experiences with the Israeli consulate and the opinions of the gentiles he grew up with, both seem to have caused Pekar to reconsider the righteousness of the Israeli-Palestinian conflicts on either side. Pekar tries to step back and form a neutral perspective while still acknowledging his ethnic heritage. He does this well, because he is a very cynical and sarcastic person, who seems to also remain compassionate.
ReplyDeleteI agree whole heartedly, he does seem to reconsider the righteousness as well as maintain a neutral perspective, you're absolutely right, I couldn't have said it better myself!
DeleteI feel like the first thing I should get in here is this: This is the third comic to use realistic renderings to this degree. The artist chose this on purpose and if we go back to McCloud's theory we must conclude he did this to distance the reader from the "speaker." Immediately we are put in the position that this is one person's opinion which helped me to be able to read the book. When Pekar immediately states that he does not believe in God, I have to admit I wanted to throw the book across the room, because I do believe in God. On the very next page the artist caught me off guard with the abstract drawing of a memory of Pekar's parents. (Page 8) Just like that I was reminded that this is just one man's opinion and everyone has a right to their own thoughts. I continued to read, proving that McCloud was right - those abstract drawings could have been my own parents and I could relate to how my own views have been molded by my own parents, etc. Needless to say I kept reading, partly out of conviction that I was required to, and partly because I was curious to here this man out.
ReplyDeleteThis history is pretty much what I have learned in history class all through my education - primary to college. So, I knew that what Pekar was summing up was basically true, or as true as 2000 years of history could make it.
By page 120 we are in a more current view of the Jews situation. While Pekar is obviously angry with his cultures response about their own Jewish State of Israel, I get why these people are so mad. They have been shoved around Europe for 2000 years that is enough to make anyone cranky. I also get his idea of stop fighting already. Everyone's culture has been guilty of terrible acts of cruelty against others. Settlers vs. Native Americans, Nazi's vs. Jews, Normans vs. Brits, Muslims vs. the Twin Towers. None of us are spotless. So I also understand how Pekar is so self-deprecating.
So here is a final thought of my own...Pekar touches on this when he talks about Muhammed and the creation of Islam. God is God - it doesn't matter what you call him. The Jews call him lots of stuff but lets start with Alpha and Omega, Christians call him God the Father, and Muslims call him Allah, but He originated from the same basis of religion (please forgive me if I offend), so what are we all fighting about? It can't really be about the religion and until we understand what the fighting is about then I don't suppose it will ever end.
P. S. - In addition because of the lengthy history of the Jewish people, I think we have to take Pekar as a reliable narrator. It is easy enough to check his facts in this day of Google me everything...so I believe that he is telling the truth as so far as he sees it. He might not be an entirely likeable character, but he is believable.
Delete“Not the Israel My Parents Promised Me” has a curious structure, and an intent that is not all together clear. Pekar has never actually spent time in the holy lands. He is not a politician, or soldier, or even notably well-read on the subject matter. His only connection to the Palestine-Israeli conflict is family, who’ve essentially forced their own opinion of the situation onto him since he was little. He is not an expert, nor is he impartial to the situation. He himself says in the book that he’s just a guy who makes comics and writes about jazz music. So what makes his perspective noteworthy?
ReplyDeleteIn this work, Pekar tries to build from the ground up, giving a relatively detailed account of the Jewish people’s history, and discussing his own personal experiences with Jewish culture. In a sense, I don’t think it was his intention in “Not the Israel My Parents Promised Me” to bring new insights or ideas into the Palestine-Israeli conflict. Rather, I think that Pekar wanted to give voice to the disconnect that seems to exist between many Americans and the history and minutiae of one of the most protracted conflicts in world history. By dissecting the history surrounding the conflict, as well as his own life, Harvey manages not only to educate his audience on the background of the Palestine-Israeli situation, but to emphasize the convoluted nature of the dispute. Despite, as well as because of his lack of proper background, Harvey gives us an edifying perspective on the problem, one that is made more relatable by the distance between it and the issue itself.
I think that whether or not Pekar's perspective is noteworthy is a great question. I like this comic so far, but I agree that in many ways he is removed from the situation in a way that could make this story less credible. It was the same thing for me with Maus too, although I liked that as well. A story like Persepolis on the other hand, gives a much more direct perspective. Despite enjoying Maus and Not the Israel My Parents Promised Me, I overall prefer the perspective of comics like Persepolis.
DeleteIt’s definitely nice to hear a different perspective on this issue. Whether or not subjectivity can enhance our understanding of past events, I find it interesting that we will always have our own personal reaction to someone’s own perspective on a situation. Do you think that Harvey’s relative detachment from the situation makes it easier for his audience to have a greater variety of opinions on the matter? Do you think this is a good thing? I don’t find myself having a preference for either Persepolis, Maus, or Not the Israel My Parents Promised Me, but I do think their differing perspectives on events give each story their own personality. And that's good.
DeleteI’m enjoying reading this comic, and at first I was wondering if I would. It's a rather wordy graphic novel, and at times the discussion thread takes on a life all its own. In the first quarter of the text, there's a lot of information about history, which is basically Pekar narrating the Old Testament story of Israel. These events are set against JT Waldman's wonderful illustrations, although in these long history sections, the art may come across as static and more decorative. But I would say that overall this works with the text. One of my favorite parts is when JT and Harvey (as characters) are driving from John Zubal's used bookstore, where the story began, to Pekar's branch of the Cleveland Public Library. JT asks Harvey what he has in mind for the middle of their story, what they anticipate will be a transition between the first and second halves. Harvey says he isn't sure, and we have several pages of this meandering discussion...which is all nicely complemented by Waldman's illustrations, which shows them driving around in the car along with the flow of the conversation, with curved and windy comics panels. So the mystery of the middle of the book is solved: the middle of their story will be their speculations over the middle of their book. I thought this was another good example of the type of metafiction comics we’ve looked at this semester.
ReplyDeleteThe Israeli/Palestinian conflict is a huge deal in America, and a lot of people make it seem that you're either with Israel, or your are against America. Harvey Pekar is showing that you can and should be critical of Israel and not just accept everything that the government and authority figures would have you believe. It's interesting the way that Pekar talks about Judaism as a nationalistic religion, I had never thought of it in that way before (not that I had really thought about any part of Judaism that much, because I'm not Jewish). Often we hear about the Jews and Israel in terms of religion or politics, but it was very interesting to see that for thousands of years, those two were one and the same. I think that it must have been important for Harvey to write this book because being Jewish is a big part of his personal identity, and Israel is a being Jewish. The country is so synonymous with Judaism that we don't often hear Jews condemning its actions. This may be another reason that Harvey wrote the book, to act as a voice to those who felt they had none. He is acting as someone who is showing that it is okay to question authority and power structures, even when (perhaps especially when) they're thousands of years old.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you weren't intimidated by this book and just decided to wing it anyway. I'm also glad people are just as skeptical as I am by Pekar's dialogue. He does seem to be an odd individual. What strikes me as being suspicious right off the bat is the overwhelming interest in his story by the random people he comes across. Everything feels very scripted (even though it inevitably and very obviously is) and things just seem a little odd. I found myself in writing comics that I'd eventually have characters appear to ask the main character a certain question and have no other role. This comic seems to do that with pretty much everyone other than Pekar himself and his immediate family. Everybody else's role is to ask him questions and trigger his responses. But of course that's my looking at it as a comic writer after running into that issue myself. Long story short, yes I find it very suspicious. He clearly has a motive. Though I agree with some of his opinions I disagree with plenty others. But the real thing that bothers me is that the whole thing feels faked.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of your second question about the illustrations, I'm finding the clean illustrations to be very fitting to the story. The historical breaks are also very refreshing and help me really understand where and when I am just by the imagery. That's a very important skill to have in an artist. I'm making several comics that deal with time travel, and in both instances, it's crucial to understand the where and when in each panel. This comic does it with realism so we can recognize characters immediately, and by illustrating similarly to the era of historical art that corresponds with the narrative. Very nicely done
Not the Israel My Parents Promised Me
ReplyDeletePekar has a very wide idea of Israel and understands what it took to reach this current point in time for the Jewish people. His idea of a perfect Jewish homeland is somewhat sarcastic sounding. He knows what his people have gone through in their history and the weight of it presses on everything he has every come in contact with and the Jewish Homeland is a serious idea that needs to be taken seriously. Pekar seems like someone who takes his past seriously. His Jewish history is more important to him than anything. His mother seemed to have dropped her religious prospects and its interesting to see how Pekar became so religious in respect to his family life. The way his family viewed the world set up a basis for his own beliefs, but he seems to have grown beyond their understanding. I respect his point of view on history because he seems too inclined to learn, but he still has something about him that seems to be less prone to someone else’s point of view. He seems a bit stubborn in accepting new ideas. I think this story represents someone’s specific point of view. It doesn’t have to be something we need to take completely seriously, but its something we all need to understand is just from one person’s point of view. What he is trying to tell the reader is something that he hopes will affect our overall understanding like all stories like this hope to do. It’s something the reader should nitpick and choose to take into consideration. I think that the story looks really nice in Black and White. I sort of wish that the pieces where we look into the past were in color while the sections about the present were still in black and White. Some use of color would change the overall mood and make it more interesting to look at. Overall it’s a very compelling piece that seems to be very well thought out.
I kind of feel I am a perfect candidate for making an unbiased opinion on the book. I will admit I am very naive and uneducated about Palestine and Israeli history. I am learning their history as I read this book. So for being such a newbie on this subject I have to keep reminding myself that Pekar’s point of view is very different then that of a proud Jew. I enjoy the visuals when telling the stories from history. All I keep thinking about is how long it took to draw all the ‘stories with in the stories’. So much time and effort when into stylizing them to look like mosaics or to look like original cave drawings. Not to mention, all the detail in the realist approach to the main characters. So far the attention to detail is amazing in this book.
ReplyDeleteThe stylizing and arrangement of frames makes this easy to follow. Keeping some full pages of just historical imagery in the forefront. There are always some moments where I get lost in all the detail. It takes me longer to get through this read because I am appreciating all the hand drawn details. I’m sure this isn’t the artist first go-around. The skill sets are awesome and well developed.
But overall, Harvey’s point of view makes this retell of Israel’’s history very interesting. I wonder what his parents would think of him if they read this book? I can only imagine.
I mean I think Pekar was being sarcastic about the "yearning for an impossible future" thing but his whole point is to criticize Israel so it makes sense, since that is what he is doing with this sarcasm. I'm wondering where the question you and the other poster had about his being "reliable," just because I don't see what makes him less reliable than anyone else. Yes he has a bias, but so did Satrapi. So far I think Pekar's point is to make a point about why and how he is a Jew and he doesn't like Israel. I don't think we've really gotten to it yet because around page 90 he is just kind of figuring out the "core" of the story, but I think its pretty clear already that the book is supposed to be a way to express his controversial view point.
ReplyDeleteThis book uses a ton of different types of panels and art styles to the point where it really defines what the narrative is doing at the point. The history of Israel is a completely different style, closer to tapestries and mosaic story telling than comics. Starting around page 90 and until page 96 the art style changes and I don't know why because I didn't read that far yet, but it seems the art tends to reflect different aspects of the story telling, using realism as the base for depicting Waldman and Pekar as they actually work on the book.
Looking deeper into the Isreal and Palestinian confict is always a touchy subject because it has been going on for so many years. I have a variety of friends who are Palestinian and I have heard countless opinions on the Jewish community and how America does nothing to ensure Palestinian safety. The world's media paints a very poor picture of the Middle East in general. They stress that since America is aiding Israel any form of defense from the Palestinians is a form of terrorism or hate.
ReplyDeleteThese people have known war for so long and the number of people that have been killed is unbelivable. It seems as if no one is off limits. This is where I think Pekar and his sarcasm comes into play. He sees what goes on in his world and he's not proud of it by any means. I think by the next reading we will be able to decipher what he truly means and learn more about his story.
The graphic use in the book is by far my favorite because the sketching is very strong from a traditional comic standpoint. The perfectly messy sketches that are within the panels reminds me of the Boondocks Illustration. I think this also has to do with the fact that Pekar is not proud of his religion and upbringing so his world is dark and grey.