This is my first time reading Persepolis and I am particularly glad that it is on our reading list, because it has been on mine every since a friend recommended it about a year ago. I am really enjoying it so far, and I hope everyone else is too!
1. In chapter eight of Understanding Comics, McCloud claims that “In black and white, the ideas behind the art are communicated more directly. Meaning transcends form. Art approaches language.” Do you think this is true, and do you think this was a factor in Satrapi’s decision to use black and white for Persepolis?
The style Satrapi employs in Persepolis is clean and bold and there is relatively little variation between the panels. What do you think of the style of the illustrations? Is this minimalist style effective for conveying the tone of Satrapi’s story?
2. When Persepolis begins, Marji is only ten years old and her perceptions of events and other people are shaped by her youth. She seems to be heavily influenced by her family members, what she learns in school, and what she reads in books and sees on TV. For an adolescent, Marji appears to be very invested in the politics, history and identity of her country. Do you think this is normal for someone her age? How might her family have played a role in shaping her attitudes? How do her opinions and personality develop as the story progresses?
3. Persepolis is an account of a period in Iranian history, but it is also a personal memoir of Satrapi’s life. On one hand, Satrapi is detailing the events going on in her country as well as providing the historical context for these events. On the other hand, Persepolis is clearly a memoir. The focus of Satrapi’s account is on her personal life, her family members and her friends. Do you think that Satrapi has combined the elements of history and memoir effectively? How have each of these shaped the story so far? Do you think Satrapi is an objective observer? What do you think Satrapi’s personal history adds to Persepolis, if anything?
Marjane tells us that her family raised her to think independently and that they want her to be independent. They tell us this at the end of the reading selection when they send her away. She shows us this when she wears jeans and tennis shoes to the market and when she gets expelled from school over her bracelet. She never tells the principal where the bracelet came from and it lets us believe that she doesn't trust her teacher to understand. She learned very young that she cannot rely on adults to tell her the truth (i.e. - the teacher that taught her that the sha was chosen by God, and then when he leaves the country that they needed to tear out that page from their books).
ReplyDeleteI think that color would be difficult in this story because what is the shade of devastation? We do not need color because we have seen the pictures of Iraq and Afganistan, and we know what devastation looks like. Even when this book was written we knew and had seen the pictures of worn torn countries and oppression.
Yes I totally agree with McCloud in his B/W statement, but I'm not so sure it was a factor in Persepolis (Though a good point to bring up don't get me wrong). I find Persepolis' Illustrations to be simple and relatable more like McCloud's iconography theory where Satrapi wants us to be able to see ourselves and our friends and family in this setting and context. This breaks the cultural boundaries more effectively than by using more specific and rendered illustration. But honestly I think a little bit of it is hasty but consistent laziness in deciding to do simplification in her work, and this is taken both from the art as well as Marjane's rebellious personality. (Though she does enjoy reading and learning a whole lot)
ReplyDeleteStory wise I think the intent of the beginning of Persepolis showing Marjane at such a young age being radically shaped by her exposure to the Iranian politics and war. This I think was meant to help us understand that this shouldn't happen. Each mini anecdote in Persepolis seems to be a small story that for one adds to the whole, but two it presents an idea that the cultural uprisings in Iran are absurd to other countries, and the thought of freedoms and equality are masked by thoughts of veils and bombs.
I believe she has combined them very effectively and I think this is much more obvious to see when you read a comic that has basically jumped on the Persepolis bandwagon ("A Game for Swallows" for instance) and see how too much history or too much family will leave the book feeling unbalanced and confusing the viewer on what is really important.
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ReplyDeleteI think that Satrapi's art style is very effective in getting her point across. The art is clean and very professional but still childlike, which fits very well with the tone of Persepolis. I agree with the McCloud quote and I also think about the section that discusses how abstraction leads us to identify more with the characters. I don't think that we would identify as much with the characters if they were more realistically drawn, or in color. I think that part of what makes jokes like the one told by her father (if hair is so alluring, you need to shave your mustache) is that we don't have a clear idea of what her teacher or anybody else looks like. We only have the caricature version and the version that exists in our heads, based on preconceived notions based on people we have seen.
ReplyDeleteI do not think that anyone in Persepolis is very objective. There is a big theme with her father, he needs to hear the news from BBC before he will believe it. Everyone within Iran is saying different, sometimes wildly untrue things, and everyone also has their own ingrained beliefs, such as those about Israel and the West. I do think that this book is written with the Western audience in mind however, and therefore is very good about explaining why the characters have the beliefs that they do. I think that it is pretty normal for Marji to be interested in current events and politics. It is clear that her parents belonged to the elite minority that are educated in the country, and they are very politically active. This, coinciding with the period of self discovery that everyone goes through, leave Marji as a very identifiable character despite her cultural differences from us.
Persepolis
ReplyDeleteI feel so many different things when reading comics. Each story has its own world that is expressed. A change in color can mean a lot of things. Color can make you feel happy and sad. Color can be the one thing you remember about a piece. They can be an entire story. In black and white, I feel as if there is a lot less of the story that I am missing out on. The story feels more fluid and direct in its message. I feel like the message that Satrapi was trying to send was easier in black and white. It did flow well like a written language. I love comics like this. They aren’t to strong in detail, but the way that the art is used minimalistic. There is much more focus. This focus forces the reader to understand the story more fluidly. I sort of feels like a comic textbook. I’m learning more about this part of the world than I have ever learned from a class. The tone of this location is sort of dim. There are many rules and deaths that plague this story. It being minimal, I was able to enjoy and understand this characters world easier.
Children are heavily influenced by what they see at home and on television. The way in which Marji always switches her ideas about her country, it is a prefect representation of a young person in search of who they are. Marji is really in tune with the world and has a growing idea of what she wants. Her parents are like a frame for her knowledge. They let her know when something she thinks of talks of might be flawed or lacking information. Her gradual change from someone open to her government then being somewhat opposed it very much a dominant part of her personality.
I love the way in which this story flows with Marji’s life and the history of her country. It sets up exactly how she herself grew up and learned of this information. To her, her countries issues frame everything that happens to her. It’s an important part of her memoir because without it, there would be nothing to the character. Setrapi’s personal history puts the reader in her shoes in this period of time and it’s refreshing to see. I understand Iran more than ever through this story and through her young eyes.
Addressing points on 2 and 3:
ReplyDeleteI think you noting the fact that this is at once a memoir and somewhat of a historical snapshot is a very poignant point to Persepolis. Marji is a child here, but she cannot be allowed a childhood separated from the conflict going on around her. She cannot play monopoly with her parents—there are more pressing things on everyone’s mind, and a huge part of her character is that she does feel rejected at moments where she is not allowed her innocence (people “going on vacation” or when he father yells at her for quoting the news) but she, being receptive and empathetic has a strong urge to understand and educate herself, and so she does so. Her country’s struggle for identity is part of her coming of age. As changes occur she participates (taking pride in her mother’s liberation march at the beginning, playing games of torture on the playground, begging to go to demonstrations, hearing the history of her uncle) and grows and changes. She rejects god when she feels unfairly rejected by him. She quickly learns maturity when approaching her friend about her diseased father. She finds strength amidst the chaos and instability of even fundamental things (we take in what we are taught almost as law as children. Believing that your leader is chosen by god then being untaught that later on would be very unsettling) by educating herself—it is not only strength but necessity, lest people in power take advantage (parallel to the conflict of the ruling power vs. the populace)
1. The choice to use black and white may be partially thanks to the effect that McCloud mentioned, but I think the form of her characters play more into this idea of helping the reader to more readily accept the story. I have to say, that her drawing style is one of my favorites so far.
ReplyDelete2.It seems kind of strange to those who might have grown up in a country where a rebellion is not in progress for a child to be as interested in politics as she is. What we have to keep in mind is that for her, the revolution is an everyday situation that people she knows and loves are involved in. Her opinions steadily shift away from supporting the revolution as she begins to realize what that means for her.
3. There are parts in the story where she switches to giving historical context for the things that she is experiencing. I would not call this a blend so much as I would consider it a juxtaposition of the two. As the story is told largely through her own point of view, it would also be a stretch to call her an objective observer. There are even points in the story where she states her lack of understanding of the events at the time.
I don't think Satrapi's art style would work in color. I could see Maus in color but this is much too simplistic. I think the black and white is also more iconic here. Many of the illustrations are not actually narrative but show something more idealistic. This relates to the "art approaches language" but I don't think that was Satrapi's goal. Things like that come more as an after thought. It just worked out like that. As for her art style, I find it interesting just how simplistic they are. There are no generally no backgrounds and the people are so similar looking the only way to tell the difference is their hair. I think the style is perfect for the tone however. The book has a comedy to it that works best with simpler art, as well as a potential to get into the darker themes.
ReplyDeleteMarji definitely seems more interested in politics than is normal even for kids of her age and class standing at the time. This is addressed when the two boys who sleep in her room brag about their toys and she says she has no toys but books. Marji is easily influenced but she isn't stubborn about it, as when someone corrects her she takes their word. Her interest in the stories of her family and politics seem implicative of her future as someone who would write a semi-fictional semi-autobiographic graphic novel about about politics.
Persepolis obviously combines the elements of history and memoir effectively and thats why people study it. She interweaves these by tracing how historical/political events shaped her personal life, as none of the anecdotes about her personal life are lacking in political context. If she goes to a party its because she thought of calling up a boy who might have been manipulated by the government. Satrapi can't be an objective observer as her own political opinions are obvious and color the tone of the book.
Without Satrapi's personal story we would have a comic book about the plain and dry historical events of Iran starting in 1979. With her personal story we have a coming of age narrative about a young girl who had to overcome multiple political turmoils and survive to tell the tale. So yeah, I think her personal story adds a lot.
1) I don't think that's true at all. I think, as I have said before, that the popularity of black and white and other low-color palettes is due to printing logistic more than anything else. Also I have an issue with the quote as it doesn't really mean anything. All of those words mean things, but when put together they don't have a meaning. "Art approaches language," for example, is, once you being to actually think about it, a meaningless sentence, and I feel in retrospect that a lot of McCloud's arguments (and artistic commentary in general) rely on statements like these. Things that seems to say a lot, but actually say very little.
ReplyDeleteBack to Persepolis, though, I don't think there's any particular reason why it's in black-and-white.
2) I think she has to become invested in politics. Children raised in highly-political societies, especially societies in which the ramifications of political division can be felt in tangible ways -- losing relatives etc -- are almost forced to become politically minded in order to understand the world around them. And they'll either grow pragmatic and smart like Marji, or they'll overcompensate and become extremists.
3) I don't think Marji is objective, and I don't think it would be useful artistically for her to attempt to be. The Iranian revolution is hard to really grasp for people who did not live through it -- as all tragedies are -- and presenting it through the lens of one girl/Iranian family helps make this event relatable.
Marj's character is extremely smart, which falls in line with the higher end education that she was receiving prior to the revolution. Though she was a smart child, especially with how she read books from famous philosophers, I doubt many of the words were directly said by her as a child. Memories are tricky things that change over time. Some of the differences came in the form of conversations with some of her friends. Comparing the authors thoughts and "direct" conversations is a hard thing to do. These two things are married so closely together in the story that it would be hard to understand one over the other. Her conversations with her parents, uncle, grandmother and friends are littered with her thoughts, inflections, and with her personal feelings. The best example of this is when she talks to her Uncle in prison. In Speigelmen's story we are hearing Art's feelings and inflections directly in between flashbacks, and subliminally in the story. The choices of style, backgrounds, colors, and the use of animals as characters are tools for Art to reflect his reactions. I prefer Speigelman's less direct style of storytelling.
ReplyDeleteMarji stopped speaking to god as she slowly became disenfranchised with the religion. As a child Marj wrote about how as a child she did parrot the words of others to a certain extent. This is seen when she uses the schools teaching that God chose their emperor. Marj becomes more interested in revolution and politics after hearing the trouble that her grandfather suffered at the hands of the regime, and becomes especially disgruntled after the death of her Uncle.
1. I think the simple black and white style is effective as a memoir. The use of repetition of patterns and shapes is reminiscent of Iranian decoration as well. Black and white also probably allows independent publishers to sell more copies and that is especially important when the story delivers information about something that hasn't been discussed in the medium.
ReplyDelete2. I think Marji's experience was drastic and hostile enough to make a memoir practical for organizing a series of sudden and sometimes horrible changes during her childhood. Her identity as part of the displaced royal family, her family's friendship with revolutionaries, the way her sister and friends suffer because of social class. Her spirituality, identity, and convictions are all brought into question out of sudden necessity and at an earlier age than most. Some of these thoughts might have been merely impressions or feelings that were later narrated into an organized developing set of ideas. I think all children begin to react to such advanced concepts as spiritual morality, political activism, or social adaptation, when they are in an environment that focuses on such conflicts.
DeleteI think that the use of color in comic books, as well as any graphic art, bears a strong impact on tone. With comic books, I think this also influences the way the story itself modifies the tone, rather than the absence of color directly affecting the mood of a work. I agree with McCloud in that an absence of color can provide us with a more direct connection to the verbal or literary content of a work. That said, I don’t think that this applies to all black-and-white works. After all, black and white are still colors themselves. As for Satrapi’s own choice, I would say that so far her style of color and drawing fits her with subject matter and mood. Obviously, a big theme of Persepolis is childhood, and a lot of what happens in the story involves growing up surrounded by conflict. The simple, almost blobby art style is highly reminiscent of the drawings you might see from children, who might only have access to a single pen. Meanwhile, with the Iranian revolution raging on throughout the story, it’s practically too easy to notice the connection between the idea of black and white art style with black and white, right and wrong morality. With the moral crises that Marji experiences every five or so pages, the stark color scheme creates a wonderful irony, emphasizing the conflicting experiences of childhood and adolescence.
ReplyDeleteSatrapi’s depictions of childhood and adolescence seem very believable, and even with how little I have in common with her, I related to a great deal of her childhood experiences. Trying to absorb everything around me, understanding the confusing and contradictory place that the world seems to be. It’s not an experience exclusive to war-torn Tehran, but it’s certainly well-felt. Of course, in such a hellish environment it’s easy enough to think less about politics and society and more about simple survival, which is what Marji’s classmates seem focused on. So why is Marji so much more politically inclined? She, like everyone everywhere, is very much a product of her environment, family included. As Satrapi tells the story of her childhood, she makes it clear to us as an audience that she was very much influenced by her family’s thinking and discussions. She was very lucky to have parents so thoughtful and in tune to the ongoing conflict in their country. However, at the time I doubt that she was aware of how much of an influence her parents had on her thinking then. What’s interesting about her character development is how clearly Satrapi presents the differences, as well as connections, between the author Satrapi and the character Satrapi. And this brings us to the third prompt.
One of the reasons Persepolis is so memorable is for its blending of history with memoir. It’s another way in which we can connect with a story; but rather than bringing us into the story of a father and son reconnecting by using cats and mice, Satrapi helps bring us into the world of the Iranian Revolution simply by telling her own family’s story. We gradually learn to relate to Art and Vladek as Maus continues, but in Persepolis we are thrown into the familiar family dynamics of the Satrapi immediately. I think Satrapi does a very good job of blending memoir and history, but more importantly, history and memoir blend easily in the first place. When you take away their context and themes, both of them leave you with stories about real life. For all the history involved in Persepolis, I don’t think that Satrapi necessarily needs to be an objective observer. Or rather, I feel that objectivity itself is, to a certain extent, irrelevant in such a story. We want to understand the conflict and trauma inherent in the Iranian Revolution, but I think our best means of doing so is by exploring personal “bias” in Satrapi’s story, rather than trying to ignore it.
I do think that the use of black and white not only fuses the language and the art effectively, but it also seem to cast how bleak and hopeless Iran was for change. These styles of illustration that go along with the story are amazing. They remove the background or have it black showing that their voice is either not valuable enough to be heard or they have no valid opinions for the change.
ReplyDeleteSatrapi's use of the minimalistic style conveys the story in a manner showing how hopeless the time was. Also this causes the reader to focus on what each panel is portraying. Power is often found in simplicity.
Marji is very aware of the world at such a young age which is a rarity to an extreme level. She seemed inspire herself with her aspirations and goals, but religion was always preached in her young life. To look to the truth at that age would cause rapid maturity. I think her ignorance of how difficult it would be to change Iran's situation is normal, but her hope kept her striving.
When Marji loses her communication with God then she changes immensely, and that will cause anyone to question their daily chores or thinking. Going from bein in-tune with herself and her culture was the pride of her life. I thought she lost that when spoke with her Uncle and stopped speaking to God.
I find the minimalist style to be incredibly effective in aiding the tone of the piece. I think it does a great job of helping to keep the reader from becoming too involved in the art itself, and to keep the reader fully immersed in the story being told. The use of black and white only was an excellent choice for this same reason, as well as creating stark contrasts within the images, that were easily and readily identifiable. This allows the reading to be both quick, and simple, allowing the story to flow easily and wonderfully, without feeling choppy or broken.
ReplyDeleteI do not believe a deep investment in the political, historical, or societal aspects of her country is a normal interest fro those of Marji's age, however i do believe her family played a significant role in creating and developing these interests. Especially with her grandfather having been a prince, i have the expectation that politics, history, and society tend to be family type interests, as in those in her family simply tend to be drawn into those sorts of subjects. Not to mention the myriad influences and conversations she is present for between her parents and their various friends, which focus heavily on these sorts of subjects.
I think Marji has done an incredible job of shaping the memoir aspects and the historical context aspects very well. I think she has revealed the history, and the historical context with the snapshots from her memoir. As in she has illuminated these things, by the way they actually impressed themselves on her and her family. Satrapi is far from an objective observer, she is an active observer, as in she was actually a part of these things, and as with all experiences we must all make a judgement call on the experiences. Therefore she was not objective, and i think her perspectives come through very clearly in the work, both her earlier perspectives and the perspective she holds as an adult looking back and creating this. What i mean by this is the comments that the adults make, and the way she portrays herself reacting (except when explicitly stated) reveals to us how she legitimately feels about these events as an adult, while some of the events that occurred throughout the memoir, clearly reveal her adolecent persepctive.